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LATEST POSTS 📚

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🦙 How Vanta Went From 1 To 100. A deep look into how product and growth works at one of the great companies.
🤗 Systems For Success & Helping Founders Enjoy The Work. An interview with Jonathan Lowenhar, Managing Partner at Enjoy The Work.
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HOUSEKEEPING 📨

Saw this tweet this week about phone usage being a low T (testosterone) indicator, and it got me thinking. Forget the bro-ness of this assertion for a moment, and follow along with me. I, for the most part, agree with this take. Not so much that it’s ‘low T’ but more so that it’s low status in a general sense.

I see couples, friends, and families sitting at cafes and restaurants all the time, starting individually at their phones. When I see this I can’t help but think to myself, ‘What a bunch of fucking losers.’ Now, are they losers? No. They are addicts. We all are. 

It shocks me today how little this gets spoken about. As if a screen time average of 7 hours per day is somehow not going to end up being every single humans largest regret when looking back on their life. I often think about what I would do if I wasn’t running Athyna. What problems would I like to solve? And I often think to this.

I despise phones. Detest social media. I kinda think if you don’t as well, you are more than a little bit crazy. And I’m not sure I wanna be your friend. I’m interested to know—how about you though?

Anyway, enough techno-pessimism for today. Let’s dive into the post, which is a banger. It’s crazy that now this little newsletter allows me to sit down to interview executives at companies valued at close to $90 billion dollars. But luckily for both of us, it does. So here is my interview with Brian Hale, released on the day that DoorDash announces passing 10 billion lifetime orders. Enjoy!

INTERVIEW 🎙️

Brian Hale, Chief Growth Officer at DoorDash

Brian Hale is the Chief Growth Officer at DoorDash, where he leads the company’s efforts across acquisition, engagement, and retention. Prior to joining in 2021, he spent over a decade at Facebook (Meta), where he helped scale core products like Instagram, Messenger, and WhatsApp, eventually serving as VP of Product Growth.

At DoorDash, Brian brings a startup mindset to a large-scale operation—building cross-functional growth teams that combine engineering, product, marketing, and data. His leadership has been central to DoorDash’s rapid expansion, with DoorDash and Wolt recently surpassing 10 billion orders. This achievement reflects a deep focus on customer-centric behavior, experimentation, and operational rigor.

What is your day-to-day job as the Chief Growth Officer?

It’s hard to pin down a typical day because it changes so much. But broadly, my role focuses on making the DoorDash app as frictionless and easy to use as possible. That might sound basic, but it's incredibly complex—especially when you're operating across multiple countries and platforms like iOS, Android, web, and mobile web. Plus, we’re dealing with customers who are all at different stages of engagement.

Making things feel easy is actually very hard. A lot of my time goes into working with teams to solve for that simplicity. Beyond usability, we also focus heavily on economic factors—how to make the app more affordable for customers, while still doing right by Dashers and merchants. It’s a three-sided marketplace, so we’re constantly balancing that equation to ensure a win-win-win.

That involves getting deep into targeting, segmentation, outreach channels—everything. So the day-to-day spans a wide range, but at its core, I love diving into the details to make each part of the customer journey better. Every day is different, but it's always about driving growth in a thoughtful, full-stack way.

Who are your direct reports?

At DoorDash, our growth team is structured in a way that’s a bit unconventional—but incredibly effective. It’s a model I brought over from my time at Facebook (now Meta), and while not many companies use it, I’ve found it to be a game-changer.

The team is intentionally cross-functional. We have engineers, designers, PMs, analysts, marketers, growth marketers, and operators all working side by side. That setup gives us full autonomy—no waiting on other teams for engineering time or data access. We can move quickly and execute end-to-end without blockers.

A lot of companies treat growth as just marketing—often siloed and fighting for resources. But we treat growth like a product. It’s integrated, data-driven, and built hand-in-hand with engineering. For example, if we’re launching a discount campaign, we don’t just brief marketing. We define the target segment, build the product hooks, and execute the campaign ourselves. Same goes for re-engagement—we own that loop, too.

_{*Note: Below you can see what a user sees on the left, and what a seller sees on the right.}

In practice, it feels like we’re running a startup within DoorDash. We have the team, the tools, and the mandate to build, test, and scale growth initiatives from the ground up. And that structure is intentional. We built the team to include all the necessary functions—engineering, product, design, data science, marketing, operations—so we can move quickly and avoid the delays that come from cross-team dependencies. It’s a self-sufficient ecosystem.

There’s a bigger reason for this too. As companies mature, a funny thing happens: everyone internally becomes a power user. All your coworkers use the product constantly, and pretty soon, so do all their friends. That means you’re surrounded by power users—and the problems you see are the problems of power users. You lose visibility into what the brand-new or occasional customer is struggling with. Those people end up totally forgotten.

That’s actually one of the biggest reasons why even very successful companies eventually stop growing—they lose touch with the people on the edge of becoming customers.

Take something as simple as the login screen. Most employees never see it because they’re always logged in. But occasional users see it all the time—and it’s often the thing that blocks them. You’d be shocked at how much friction comes from just that one moment. So yes, our team is like a startup within DoorDash, laser-focused on serving those early-stage customers the rest of the org might not even notice.

If your team focuses on acquisition, who takes care of retention?

I’d say our team focuses on customers who are either new or use DoorDash only occasionally—people who haven’t yet reached ‘escape velocity’ and are still at risk of churning. Our job is to help them get past that threshold where their likelihood of leaving becomes very low.

Once someone hits that point—where they’re consistently ordering and have built a habit—then the rest of the company takes over. Other teams focus on deepening that relationship: expanding use cases, increasing engagement, and helping those power users get even more value from the platform. So yes, we focus on acquisition and activation—but also on retention, up to a certain point. We care deeply about retaining the users who are still on the bubble. Once they’re solidly in the fold, that’s when the rest of the organization really kicks in to support their long-term journey.

How did DoorDash grow market share dramatically in recent years?

There’s no single reason, but if I had to sum it up in one phrase, I’d say: customer obsession. That mindset permeates everything we do. To break it down, a huge part of our growth came from our relentless focus on selection— making sure customers could get everything in their local area. That’s a massive lift. It means building relationships with thousands of merchants, one by one, to ensure people can find exactly what they want, nearby.

Then there’s the logistics side: ensuring there are always enough Dashers available across every geography to meet demand reliably. That’s a huge operational challenge, and we invested heavily to make sure we could deliver quickly and consistently.

On top of that, we’ve spent years refining the app itself—making it smoother, more affordable, and easier to use. We work to improve things like login, delivery accuracy, and even pricing—all in ways that customers may not consciously notice, but absolutely feel.

It’s hundreds, probably thousands, of small improvements over time. Each one might seem minor, but together, they create a meaningfully better experience. Customers may not be able to pinpoint exactly why DoorDash feels better, but they know it does. And that’s what drives loyalty and growth.

What is the ‘AHA Moment’ when a DoorDash user becomes a power user?

It really varies by product, but in our case at DoorDash, the key indicator is behavior—specifically how frequently someone orders. When we see that a user is consistently ordering several times a month, that’s usually the point where their likelihood of churning drops significantly.

At Facebook, for example, there was a well-known benchmark of getting 20 friends in 20 days. That wasn't magic in itself, but it represented a threshold: once someone hit it, their chances of sticking around went up substantially. For DoorDash, it’s a similar idea, just behavior-based. The more often you order—especially once it becomes habitual—that’s when the risk of churn really drops.

So the ‘AHA Moment’ isn’t a single feature or experience—it’s when usage becomes consistent. Once someone reaches that stage, the rest of the company can focus on deepening their engagement and expanding the ways they use DoorDash.

Is it about consistency in orders or accelerating frequency to reach stickiness faster?

That’s a great question, and I’ll start by highlighting a common mistake most companies make: they assume customers are on their timeline instead of the customer’s. But in reality, people don’t care what you think their journey should look like—they move at their own pace.

A good example is the 30-day free trial. Just about every company offers one, and while there’s nothing wrong with that model, the problem comes when companies rely too heavily on it. They might say, ‘If someone uses the product four times in 30 days, they’ll stick.’ So they design the trial to encourage that. But averages can be deceptive.

When you dig into the data, you often see this wild distribution: some people come in with extreme intent and use the product heavily from day one. Others take months—or even years—to reach that same level of engagement. There’s a big group who don't fit neatly into the 30-day window at all.

How do you think about running experiments?

You need a healthy mix of both: proven channels to drive reliable results, and dedicated space—time, budget, and attention—for experimentation. That balance keeps you sharp and opens the door to new opportunities.

A common mistake I see is companies not being rigorous about incrementality. They assume spend is working just because CPAs look good—but without true tests, like market-level holdouts or spend pauses, it’s impossible to know the actual impact. And even if averages look solid, the last 20% of spend might be deeply inefficient if you’re not digging into marginal incrementality.

I don’t believe in a one-size-fits-all ratio for experimentation—it depends on your stage, goals, and risk appetite. What matters most is mindset. Are you questioning assumptions? Are you focused on the edges, not just the averages? That’s what separates good from great.

What percentage of resources go towards these bets?

I don’t have a hard-and-fast percentage like 80/20, because it really depends on the situation. But I do believe in finding the right balance between conviction and humility. You want to have conviction when launching something big, but also enough humility to admit you could be wrong. That’s where experimentation comes in. The tension is between shipping quickly and learning rigorously. Go too far in either direction and you lose the plot.

You want to test the things that matter—especially those that touch the user experience—so you can be confident you're making things better.

Ultimately, the best teams know when to trust their instincts and when to validate with data. The key is staying humble, questioning yourself, and being open to the idea that even well-intentioned changes can sometimes make things worse.

How do you set goals inside the growth department at a company the size of DoorDash?

It starts with picking the right metrics. If your mission is to serve new or infrequent customers—the ones most likely to churn—then goals like total orders won’t cut it. That usually reflects power users, not the audience we’re trying to grow. Instead, we focus on how many customers we’re reaching and retaining, especially those early in their journey. There’s no universal metric, but MAU can be a helpful proxy if it aligns with that intent.

We also tailor goals to the type of work. For core growth, it’s a game of inches—hundreds of small wins that add up—so we aim for stretch goals that push the team without feeling impossible. But for zero-to-one efforts, like launching new products or channels, you need bold, high-upside goals that reflect the potential to move the business in a big way. It’s all about matching the goal to the nature of the work and the customer stage you're targeting.

What is the cadence of goal setting for your team?

We set annual goals as our north star, then break them into monthly targets to track momentum and stay focused. That cadence keeps us grounded in the big picture while adapting to shorter-term shifts. That said, not everything fits into a monthly box. Some of our most impactful work—like launching a new channel or building infrastructure—can take six to nine months. So we plan the year with that in mind, often front-loading lighter goals to create space for bigger bets that land later.

We think in terms of a portfolio: some quick wins, some medium bets, and a few long-term plays. That mix keeps teams energized and ambitious. One mistake I’ve seen is only setting quarterly goals—teams end up playing it safe because the runway’s too short to aim high. Giving space for long-term work is how real innovation happens.

Tell us about the acquisitions of Deliveroo and SevenRooms?

Deliveroo is probably the more straightforward one. It reflects our ambition to serve as many people as possible and strengthen the connection between consumers and their local economies—wherever they are in the world. At DoorDash, we’ve always been deeply committed to working with local businesses, not replacing them. Our model is built around helping people access what’s nearby, not centralizing everything into a few giant retailers.

By bringing Deliveroo into the fold—alongside our existing presence with Wolt and others—we now have the opportunity to serve over a billion potential consumers. That kind of scale is exciting, but what matters most is doing it in a way that continues to prioritize local partnerships and strengthens the communities we operate in.

SevenRooms is a bit more adjacent but equally strategic. It’s about deepening our relationship with both customers and merchants. On the customer side, we’re always asking, “What else can we offer that would make your experience even better?” For power users, that might mean richer interactions, better personalization, or expanded services.

On the merchant side, we’re thinking about how to help restaurants and businesses do what they do best—without having to become experts in things like email marketing or website development. SevenRooms offers tools that enable merchants to build direct relationships with their customers. If we can help bring those capabilities to more businesses, that’s a huge win for everyone. So while Deliveroo is about reach and scale, SevenRooms is about depth and value. In both cases, it’s about finding ways to better serve more people and empower local businesses at the same time.

How does growth via acquisition factor into future plans at DoorDash?

Growth through acquisition is not something we rush into. In fact, we hadn’t made a major acquisition announcement in quite a long time before these recent ones. The goal is simple: serve as many customers as possible, and do it in the best way we can. If there’s a company out there that shares our values and helps us achieve that mission—whether through expanding our reach, deepening customer relationships, or empowering merchants—we’re open to joining forces. But only if it makes real strategic sense and aligns with our long-term goals.

So yes, we’ll continue to look for opportunities, but it’ll be measured and intentional. This isn’t about chasing growth for the sake of it. It’s about finding long-term fits that help us better serve our ecosystem.

Tell me more about your recent 10 billion lifetime order milestone?

Hitting 10 billion lifetime orders is an incredible milestone—but in many ways, we feel like we’re just getting started. A disproportionate amount of that order growth came in just the past year alone, which speaks to both the momentum we’ve built and the massive opportunity ahead. What’s most exciting to me is how early we still are in this journey. We’ve only reached a fraction of the total addressable population—we’re just barely scratching the surface of what’s possible.

Our focus is on getting every order right—every time. That means relentlessly obsessing over every detail, continuing to improve the percentage of perfect orders, and building stronger partnerships with local businesses so they can thrive. There’s still a long road ahead to connect every local customer to every local business. Unlike others, we’re not here to replace anyone—we’re here to empower every business in your neighborhood to be successful, and we believe the best is yet to come.

How do you get the best out of yourself personally and professionally?

It starts with prioritizing physical and mental health. I’ve become much more disciplined about working out, lifting weights, and generally taking care of myself. It might sound unrelated to work, but in a high-pressure role, that foundation is everything. You can’t lead effectively if you’re running on empty.

Professionally, I apply that same discipline to how I lead—being intentional with goals, reviews, and especially feedback. One of the most valuable lessons I’ve learned is that being too nice can actually be harmful. I used to sugarcoat feedback, thinking I was being kind, but I’ve realized that vague guidance can mislead teams and waste time. Now I focus on being direct, clear, and respectful, because that’s what truly helps people grow.

So at the core, it’s about two things: taking care of my health and leading with clarity. That’s what helps me stay sharp and show up for my team consistently.

And that’s it! You can follow Brian on LinkedIn and also checkout DoorDash on their website to learn more.

BRAIN FOOD 🧠 

HIRING ZONE 👀 

Today we are highlighting AI talent available through, Athyna. If you are looking for the best bespoke tech talent, these stars are ready to work with you—today! Reach out here if we can make an introduction to these talents and get $1,000 discount on behalf of us.

TWEETS OF THE WEEK 🐣 

TOOLS WE USE 🛠️

Every week we highlight tools we actually use inside of our business and give them an honest review. Today we are highlighting Paddle—a merchant of record, managing payments, tax and compliance needs—we use their ProfitWell tool.

See the full set of tools we use inside of Athyna & Open Source CEO here.

HOW I CAN HELP 🥳

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